A HIRED CALLING!

Derek Wilson (03:36.142)
Hey Brian, how are ya? Looks like you're still on mute, buddy.

Derek Wilson (03:43.598)
It wouldn't be the first time, right? Nope, that is the phrase of the century, right? Exactly. Thanks for jumping through the hoops here to get on this new link for me. When you had your email, I have problems accessing recordings through that link because it's my calendar layer and an Outlook layer and apparently somewhere the passcode for downloading the files is not syncing in. So I recorded two podcasts in the past two days.

And both of them are currently trapped behind a firewall. So that's why I had to give you a new link. no sweat. No sweat. Brian thank you for joining us today on this episode of a hired calling. Resume Revelator's a hired calling. You and I haven't met yet. So I'm trying to get it up to speed on what you've been doing on your impressive career. Looks like you're a Marine, super fidelis. Hurrah. So how many years did you do and what did you leave the service as? What rank?

Yeah, so I was, I did 20 years, started out in aviation. So I flew helicopters for a while. And then from there, I did a couple other things that we all do in the Marine Corps. And then eventually what got me to where I am today, I was in charge of transitioning for the Marine Corps Wounded Warrior Regiment. And so that's what got me into the passion for helping folks with transitioning, actually sitting there in the trenches with these service members and figuring out.

how are we going to set them up for success prior to transitioning from the military? And actually, that's how SkillBridge actually got started. As I started putting our Marines into SkillBridge or into internships, I should say. And then the JAG, like as all good JAGs like to say, no, you can't do it. We gotta, I said, well, what do we gotta do? He says, you gotta change the law. So I was also a legislative affairs officer. So back in 2012,

I actually added language into the MDAA to allow transitioning. I didn't say wounded. I said to allow transitioning service members to participate in internships prior to transitioning from the military. And then we use that language to create SkillBridge. wow. So, Brian, are you telling me that you are partially responsible for the early creation of SkillBridge? I would say wholly.

Derek Wilson (06:04.494)
I wrote the language to make it law. That is fantastic. You have done an amazing thing for veterans. I thought I would know the person's name who did this and it's you. That's amazing. It's funny because I hear a lot of people say, hey, they created skill. But I was like, no, you didn't. How it got created was by creating a law that then as laws, you create policy from law, from the NDA. So I'm the one who wrote the language.

into the NDA. That's amazing. So you did that while you were on active duty doing the Wounded Warriors program. Yeah. So it's just, and I tell people it wasn't crazy. You know, it's just like, you know, we use critical thinking or average man theory. It's like, if you're in a position, what needs to be done? And I think we just find a way to get her done. So then from the time of creation to what it was,

last year prior to this recent update, how did it change from what it was, what you guys intended it to be to what it was before the newest change? Yeah, so, you know, we only wrote the law and then I worked with DOD to create the DOD policy many years ago. And then from, you know, how policies written in the military order, you know, is then from the DOD policy, then each branch of the service creates their own policy, you know, Marine Corps order or Marine Corps.

so, you know, it, it, it differentiates between the services, you know, and, you know, originally, you know, it was, it was slow going, right? Because, it's, you know, it's hard to let somebody, you know, commanders to get on board with letting service members go away for 180 days or even 90 days, you know, and, you know, and we know back then, you know, it's like, nobody likes to give anybody else a good deal. I was just talking to a service member today.

coming out of Hawaii who just got skill bridge today. And still to this point, even some commanders are still reluctant to allow folks to do skill bridge. But we still, at Northrop, we've had over 500 skill bridge folks with us and it's been, heck, we convert about 95, 96 % into full -time opportunities following their internship. So it's been very successful.

Derek Wilson (08:29.134)
So I just finished my doctorate in December of 2023 and one of my interviewees was a Northrop Grumman employee. He went through the SkillBridge program and lots of great things to say about it. So it's very interesting to meet you now and talk about its creation. And you were in the service and active duty when it's created. Now you're at Northrop Grumman. And he made an interesting comment in that when that first iteration was going around, I'm not sure it was the first iteration.

but the class he was in, he witnessed Grumman be kind of pushed to the side because they were hiring all the great candidates and some other companies were complaining that they weren't getting the chance to hire. So he says that Grumman then created their own SkillBridge program. Well, eventually what happened was when I joined Northrop Grumman, we used to be with HOH and God bless HOH. I have nothing bad to say about HOH, but what bothered me was,

when I created SkillBridge was primarily for our enlisted folks, right? Because our wounded warriors, many of them were E6s and below. So, you know, to me, I'm all about the enlisted, the junior enlisted, the NCOs, and how do we get those guys opportunities? You know, as an officer, we have a network, we can build a network, we have opportunities that our junior folks don't have. So that's where my passion is. And so the one thing I didn't necessarily...

like with HOH, I don't know if they've changed recently, is that you had to have a degree, right? And, you know, our enlisted don't have degrees. And also they start on cohorts, right? You and I both know we have service member who's transitioned all year round. So maybe those cohorts don't align with their transition plan, right? Or when their command is going to give them the ability to participate in SkillBridge.

So we didn't want to negate somebody from starting a skill bridge position based on some cohort date that they didn't fall into or because they didn't have a degree. So we think it opens up the aperture to a wider candidate pool from technicians to test pilots and everywhere in between. Yeah, I agree with you. In general, I agree with.

Derek Wilson (10:50.67)
In general, I believe the cohort model is the best way to learn and change. However, with what we're already facing with the dynamics of the military experience at the tail end, and you're trying to transition out, cohort model might not be the best way. So you guys probably did a great thing there in opening the aperture. Yeah, I don't know, learn and change in which way. So there's research that says that...

learning in a cohort model increases your retention and you're able to learn more because you also make connections. If they were working together. Right. You know, if they're working together in a cohort, but our skill bridge, they're not, they're not stationed together in a cohort. We have some more test pilots. We have some more on the floor building aircraft, testing aircraft, doing software. So they're not necessarily in a group together. Right. You're right. I was mixing together the TAPS part of it and then the skill bridge part of it.

the task part of it, it still remains a cohort program. I know. Although we do have one cohort of software. So we just recently had a software cohort where we brought in 13, now 12, one had to drop, but 12 veterans. And we're training them through an 18 week software engineering program. They didn't, you know, and then to teach them how to be software engineers for Northrop Grumman.

So that is a cohort where they'll be taking classes and learning together. So yeah, I see where you're coming from. That part does work, that kind of framework and learning. You just gave me a new piece. So you guys have your standard skill bridge operations and now you just said there's a smaller piece for specific, for software engineers that are gonna be learning to be that for another Grumman, but that's not a recurring program right now.

Now this is our second goal round. So the first one was great. We had, I want to say 12, we hired 10. And then this one 13, and we got 12 through, 12 in the class right now. So yeah, it's successful. We feel that it's been very successful for Northrop and the needs that we'll have for opportunities in the future. And.

Derek Wilson (13:11.79)
So we call it a pilot, but second time around, you know, hopefully, I don't know if we can make it standard year round. Thank you for that. So are there other, had there been other programs like this where it was a standalone one time, two time, like kind of a skill up situation where you needed software engineers like this, maybe for a different, a different skill set that you know of? Not within Northrop. This is our first, first time doing it. And so we hope to do more. We're looking at.

other opportunities, you know, with, so we have an education program. So we're, you know, we're working with A &P schools, we're working with surviving, you know, looking at survivability engineers, another type of training to basically, you know, give those folks who have, you know, the skill sets or maybe the knowledge or some of the experiences, but not necessarily the exact things that we need to be a survivability engineer or even like earned value management. So,

You know, we have a lot of financing and, you know, folks in the military, but one thing that we don't do in the military that we do on the civilian side is earned value management. So I tell a lot of folks, if you've got time before you can transition and you're in a financial field, you know, do EVS, EVMS, and that's huge for us. Interestingly, the gentleman who is...

I just talked about earlier coming from Hawaii who was getting into a skill bridge. The hiring manager was a skill bridge. He came north of Grumman through skill bridge. Now he's a hiring manager and he's bringing another skill bridge guy on. So, and both in finance and EVMS. So with skill bridge, we're able to get them that experience in EVMS while they're doing skill bridge with us. So, you know, we'll set them up for full -time offers at the end. But if they can get that, you know, transitioning service member not able to do skill bridge.

But if you're in that field, it's a good skill set. It's a small, it's a certificate, right? It's like PMP. I can back you up in a test to the value of knowing and value management and corporate government contractors. I'll do that myself. It's a unique way to look at financials and it's a way that most veterans actually think along these terms and we communicate along in these terms.

Derek Wilson (15:37.262)
and knowing how the financial side of it works is actually very helpful. You brought up another topic for me. So in my time in government contracting, I spent time working with, looking at DOTC, Defense Ordnance Technology Consortium and other technology consortiums to see what technology the government was looking for next and how did my company, how can we meet those needs? Similar to that, how does Northrop Government look at what skills you're gonna need next for the future? Yeah, I mean,

Wow, I mean with the things that are going on right now, obviously we're big in the STEM. So you know the skill sets with you know, we're doing modeling and simulation. So a lot of that stuff that we do, we used to build and you know, it's now all done in modeling and simulation. So that helps you know, greater to you know, like we just building the next generation aircraft, right? Back in the day, building the next generation aircraft, say the F -18 would take

five, 10 years. Now we can do that in a year, year to two years from sketching to putting out a product. So modeling, simulation, AI, all that stuff is huge when it comes to designing and engineering. And so we're doing a lot of that. We're working on some programs right now, but hopefully we will come forward. But still, we still have, those are for those, but we still have logistics, supply.

supply chain, logistics, technicians, testing, engineering. So, I always used to say anything that you have, any MOS, AFCC, AFSC, any of those rates that we have in the military, translate to an opportunity at Northrop. I don't say, let's take away the medical side, right? Even though we do have nurses, but anything else, we do have a lot of crossover with skill sets in the military to Northrop.

I've changed gears on you for a moment and go back in time to your window warrior days and that kind of space. Did you do a lot of the handoffs to other nonprofits once the service member would transition out? Or can you speak about nonprofits that are in this space helping veterans get to better jobs that you see who are doing a great job? Yeah, you know, I don't, I didn't like to add, I mean, I do know some that are very,

Derek Wilson (18:08.814)
I would say very take a lot of initiative or well positioned in that space. But what I would say to folks is, transitioning service members is take a look at those folks who are willing to help you out. There's a veterinary, there's American corporate partners, find a mentor, find someone, because it comes down to networking, hiring our heroes, hire our heroes, whatever it may be.

get with one of those and get your resume reviewed. And also network, right? Whether you want to be an entrepreneurship or whatever it may be, connect with someone. Because that is only going to expand your network and it's going to get your resume reviewed. I don't want to do a, we all talk about tailoring your resume. It's true, right? So get with one of those organizations, network with those organizations, get out there and meet employers.

I know in the Marine Corps, we used to have a message to Garcia, right? Which was standard reading and where, you know, a lot of times it was like, go find the answer on your own. When you're transitioning, there's a lot of people out there willing to help you take that help and go out and find it. Because what's going to happen when you go to a recruiter, say at a Northrop Grumman, like myself, I'm not a career planner, right? We have hundreds of requisitions that we're trying to take care of.

And as much as I would love to sit kneecap to kneecap with every candidate and tell them how to fix their resume or what positions they should be applying to, there's just not enough time in a day for us to do that. So utilize those nonprofits out there. You know, if you can Google search just as well as I can not, you know, don't pay for anything. If a nonprofit or somebody is asking you to pay for something, drop them on a heartbeat. Right. You know, for us Marines out there, Semper Fi Fund, things like that.

but there's a lot of folks out there, a lot of nonprofits, whether they're national or local, right? That can assist you in helping you in your transition. Take those classes, take those courses, listen to folks who know what they're doing. So the research says that about 60 % of veterans seek resume help from nonprofits when they transition. I just did mine and granted it was different. I pulled most of my people from LinkedIn.

Derek Wilson (20:29.166)
I imagine my data set would be mostly junior NCOs and non -NCOs, ended up being E7 was my average rank. But from the people who responded to my survey to the people who were able to be interviewed, because they had to have used a VSO, only about 10%. So I'm seeing a big difference between what I saw in veterans using VSOs at 10 % versus what other research shows at 60. What would you say it is? Wow. That's great.

interesting information. I couldn't really speak. I don't know enough about that to speak to it, but I can tell you, you know, I remember in my own transition, you know, my own transition, there's no silver bullet to a resume, right? There's no right or wrong resume. And I also think it also depends on the company that you're applying to, you know, whether you go to a Northrop Grumman,

we really want to see those hard skills, right? And I won't go into tailoring your resume class here, but bottom line is we are look, those position descriptions are written by the hiring manager. Now as a recruiter, I can only forward to the hiring manager what, you know, is in that position description and making sure that that person has that information, that skill set to experience. If not, you're going to be, you know,

Set back, right? I've seen so many times people will apply to 50 different positions with the same resume. You got to tailor your resume. And I saw a great article on military .com right now this morning and about, you know, resumes. So research that information about tailoring, because what I want to see is what's in that position description. You know, if you were a sniper and you could snipe somebody from 500 yards, great.

But what does that got to do with logistics, right? What does that got to do with supply? Myself as a pilot, you know, great, I could fly 1500 hours in an aircraft, but what does that really do with recruiting, right? So I got to talk about recruiting, what I did for recruiting. So stick to that position description and tailor it and have some people review it.

Derek Wilson (22:44.334)
So you're saying that the Boolean search is the right, it's the only method really for recruiters to find the right person. There's no magic. There's no hope is focused. It's having the right keywords in your resume that match the job description. Exactly. Exactly. And we have great sources who use Boolean searches all day long. So, you know, again, if you're going to be an engineer, supply, logistics, whatever it may be, make sure that's in your resume and network, tailoring your resume are huge, huge.

I saw on your LinkedIn profile, there was a button to click that brought you basically to a veteran specific section to upload your resume. Yes. So tell me what happens when veterans use that? What's the real deal? Does it go into your inbox? Does it go to it right into the rest of the pile or what happens to that? No, no. So what we do is take that information. It goes into a program we call Aperture. And then so you go into an Aperture folder and from that Aperture,

we're going to send you another link to more, what would I say, to get more information on you about your wants, needs, and desires, right? Your locations, your degrees, if you have one, security clearance, something. I used to be in headquarters Intel, right? Intel is around us all over the place, right? But it's noise until it's synthesized and analyzed. So what we do is when you send that information to us, we're going to send you back, I hate to say it,

another little form that's going to really get down into the weeds of what you're looking for. And then from there, as we have positions that open up, we're going to share it with our recruiting team and also our sourcing team. So North, you know, you have people aren't familiar. You have sources who that is all day, every day on LinkedIn searching for candidates, you know, so on and so forth. And then they share a little candidates, qualified candidates that they find with the recruiters and the hiring managers. So when it goes into that,

that we have, our sourcers can search from there for specific needs, whether they're looking for engineers, technicians, logistics, supply chain, whatever it may be. So when you have things like that, it's key to get your information into those databases because that's what we're using to search candidates. And so a sourcer goes in and checks that folder for possible candidates before...

Derek Wilson (25:12.014)
They even go out to LinkedIn maybe. Yeah, exactly. They use multiple, LinkedIn recruiter, GitHub, I think it is called, clearance jobs. But this one's internal to us. So for us, it's free. So for many of our recruiters who don't have all those sourcing tools, it's a free resource that they can go into and search. And it's across all sectors.

So I'm with aeronautics sector, Northrop Grumman is made up of five different sectors. And so it's, and we're a worldwide company. So when you go in there, that Aventure folder is available and has access by all different sectors. So you're not, you know, pigeonholed to, you know, just the locations and opportunities we have in aeronautics, space, defense system, mission systems, you name it. So it's really a great idea for veterans to figure out what they want to do and upload their information to that.

that portal, the military career support forum. They can access that on your LinkedIn. We'll put a link to it up here. And they can get into the pool to be seen first from the sources before they even go out to LinkedIn. That's a good idea. Do you know other programs that have that feature other companies? I'm not trying to add. Yeah. So, you know, the more you get your information out there, you know, I would research those companies that you're looking for, those companies that you're interested in.

And then I mean, I'm not going to lie. There's a lot of great companies out there, right? Whether it's Lockheed, Raytheon, you know, all our frenemies, right? But great companies, but great companies that veterans work for, right? So if they have a tailor, you know, join our military community or join that or this, join it, right? Because whether it's Aventure or they have another, you know, RL, you know, a resort or what do you call it? CSM, I believe it is.

It goes into their tools, right? They put that out there for a reason so that they can attract candidates and so that they can source from. So yeah, I know it might be, I used to tell my Marines finding a job is a job. So you know what, if you work eight hours in the military, hey, guess what? There's no difference in finding a career, right? You got to work for it. Find those, and I'll put a plug out there for 50 strong.

Derek Wilson (27:40.462)
We do a lot of stuff with 50 strong, great employers on there. So also when you see like these employers who are out there, we do a lot of military. Matter of fact, we do a monthly military information brief. When we're on there, you're going to have recruiters and military teams again, from all different sectors. So I know we at Northrop Grumman are doing that. Research your companies that you're interested in. See if they have those opportunities for networking or meetups or things of that nature. Cause sometimes at the end of the day, it just comes down to.

meeting the right person, networking. I've seen it so many times, we do these meetups, we're getting back into it after COVID now, where we bring hiring managers to these event networking events. And it's gangbusters, hiring managers, because once you meet somebody eye to eye, read their resume, get to know them as a person. So a lot of times when we're looking at these resumes, we're really splitting hairs, a lot of qualified candidates. So now when you go to these meetups or you're networking with someone,

and they get to know you, that could be the difference between getting an opportunity.

So I totally agree with you. And sometimes the hiring manager, you're down to two individuals with basically identical resumes that you can't decide on. And you're looking down to what factor is next and how it comes down to are there any errors here, what keywords are best. But back to your - It's like a promotion board, right? It's like a promotion board. Exactly, it is. You know, it's like errors, you know, between two great qualified candidates. So. You mentioned, a friend of me's,

When I was at General Atomics, we referred to people or other companies that are in our same space as competitive mates, because we would. We would be bidding on the same contracts and then whoever would win it, they would work together and we try to work together. Exactly. I don't think it exists, but it would be great if there was a resource that was, hey candidates, go put your information here and one of these companies is going to hire you. And there was plenty of job boards and talent firms.

Derek Wilson (29:44.718)
But being able, if there was a way to reach in and see who is that Boeing or who is that Grumman or who is that BAE, a competitive mate type space that really should be on this project. And how could we collaborate to bring them here temporarily to, you know, some of that really collaboration and know what happens on whenever there's a contract that's already in place. But I wonder what happened for the hiring process.

Yeah, you know what we matter of fact I have worked with some colleagues from Boeing from Lockheed Martin. We've had some discussions because one of the big things that a lot of us need are aircraft structures, right? And aircraft structures, you know. We have a lot of them at Northrop. I know Boeing, Lockheed Martin, so we're thinking about why couldn't we have some kind of training course near a.

military base, camp Dunlton, both Marines, but let's just, you know, cause you know, there are companies like BMW and others that do host training courses at these bases, the trained service members. So again, because we have locations in different, you know, Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing, we all have different locations, right? But we need a lot of the same skill sets. So ideally wouldn't it be great if we trained to the same skill sets, you know, for entry level structures.

And depending on where that service member wanted to go, whether it's Texas, whether it's Missouri or staying in California, they have to choose from a Boeing, a Northrop or a Lockheed Martin. So we have thrown that idea around at our level. So we'll see where that goes. I'm gonna change gears on you again, if you don't mind to a little bit about.

The things that make people successful when they transition. And I think the biggest thing is self -efficacy. And so I don't know that we get self -efficacy the way that we get group efficacy in the military because we accomplish great things. We all have these great stories, but we did those things with a group. And once you transition, you don't really have that group anymore unless you get into your network and you do build that very strongly. But most of us don't do that.

Derek Wilson (32:09.454)
so have you seen people who are more self -advocacious do better coming through organizations you work for? Can you speak a little about self -efficacy? Yeah, you know, you have to, you know, for myself, I mean, I'll use my networking, you know, and using that network. Matter of fact, I was just talking to, you know, that to the article person who wrote that, and she mentioned using that network self -advocacy. You've got to build it up. I'll be honest with you. Bye.

I've worked for Department of Defense, the VA, and now at Northrop Grumman. All three positions were because of my network and people I knew who referred me and who put me up for opportunities. So using that, using that network, I think once you get into a position, internally, once you get into a organization like Northrop,

Great thing about Northrop Grumman is we have a lot of military, right? It's overall 20 % in the, our sector aerospace is about 25%. So there's gonna be a lot of people that's gonna help you once you get in. We have an ERG once you get in. So that comradery, right? You built that, but we had it in the military you can have. But yeah, once you're transitioning, I can't tell you enough, it's about reaching out.

working with others and connecting.

Derek Wilson (33:41.742)
Are there any networking resources that people should look at that you haven't mentioned already? You mentioned ACP and some of the nonprofits. Yeah, definitely reach out. Matter of fact, I have, I have, I matter of fact, I had a director who's you got me a candidate who's on veterati. I have one of my TA managers who's, you know, veteran on veterati. So,

At the end of the day is when one of those folks internally refers a candidate to me, you're going to get at least looked at. Again, there's no silver bullet, no guarantees. But without going into the whole recruiting process and what a recruiter looks like, we open up our requisition, we see 100 candidates on there. We don't use a tool that does word searches or anything. It's all by eyeballs with Northrop Grumman.

So, you know, we could, you know, if you can get the resume somewhere he refers you, could get you on top. It's gonna go a long way because it's, you know, a director or a manager sends me a resume and a candidate, I'm gonna do the professional courtesy of giving that candidate a good screen. And if they're a good candidate, they're going to hiring manager review, right? So yeah, that's why networking is so important just to, you know, get yourself on top of the pile and first in front.

Thank you for that great advice. I agree with you wholeheartedly. What about veterans who may have left the military, gone into some other type of industry and not even related to their military experience and then now have to change back careers because they lost their job or because they're moving or they can't get a promotion. How does somebody who's been out for a while come back and rejoin Grumman besides knowing somebody that works there? Well, I'm hoping or maybe.

that whatever that second, their first career after the military has even us face it, sometimes they take a 180, even coming out of the military, they take a 180, maybe get some training, maybe go to school using their GI bill and join Northrop Grumman. I've had plenty of logistics technician guys who have gone and girls who have gone to school, got some training and came in as engineers or you name it, any different thing. Now, if you got out,

Derek Wilson (36:07.918)
You've got some training in something you find out four years later, totally different than what you wanted to do. And you were an aircraft technician while you were in the air force. You know, still, still, still opportunities, right? The one thing that people have to understand is the leveling aspect. Matter of fact, we're talking about retention, right? So for instance, we work with the service Academy career conference. A lot of these guys are engineers. Matter of fact, I just had a Marine pilot.

who went through our software engineering course in the last cohort, he had a computer science, then he joined Marine Corps and was a pilot for 20 years, right? So, but he wanted to get back into software and in computer science, engineering, all that good stuff. I had to manage expectations and let them know, hey, if I was hiring you for a pilot, then I could count all those 20 years towards a position, a level four.

at Northrop Grumman. But basically you have no software engineering courses or experience because you've been a pilot. God bless, I was a pilot. I think it's great, cool thing to do. But you're going to have to come in at a level two. So a lot of service members don't understand that because they'll say, hey, 10 years experience, 11 years experience. But if you look at some of our jobs, it's 11 years relevant experience. So if we're asking for an engineering degree,

and you got to say you got an engineering degree at college, but then you were an infantry officer for the next 10 years. Infantry officer doesn't necessarily, even though you may have mechanical engineering degree, will not count towards 10 years of mechanical engineering at Northrop Grumman. But going back to your question, there are still opportunities. You know what? I always say is whether you're getting out or,

It's training, it's certifications, right? As I go back to it, splitting hairs. So look, I always say, look at a job, if you don't qualify now, look at position descriptions that you're looking for and backwards plan, right? If it's requiring an EVMS, you know, earned value management or, you know, some other certifications, go get it, right? So that you can add it to your resume because that's only going to make you more qualified. Yeah.

Derek Wilson (38:32.974)
just look at the positions, what they call for, and make sure you can add it to your experience or certification list. IT is a great one, right? How many of those Cisco certifications or any of the security, C++ or Python, if that's in the job description, go get it. It might take you six months, it might take you a year, but there's a lot of programs that cater to military, like Onward to Opportunity, like the Microsoft security certifications.

So, you know, take advantage of those free education training that's available to veterans to set yourself up for success. Those are all great programs you just listed there. I think there's a knowledge problem and awareness problem that we have to work through. I also want to talk to you about luck a little bit. How lucky do you consider yourself? Yeah, you know what? I consider myself blessed and lucky. You know what? And sometimes you got to make your luck.

You know, I think about this often as how I feel very lucky to be in my position and you know, how am I, how did I get to be here at Northrop Grumman doing a job that I love helping serve in a community that I love, right? But I think you got to put yourself in the right position too, right? You know, meeting, you know, networking, right? And how I met my managers is all through, you know, working in my positions, doing a good job, you know, and then not afraid to ask for help.

Once you get out, I mean, that's how I literally got all three of my positions as I seen these opportunities and I went and asked for help. So lucky, I guess, maybe just by networking and getting to know people. So I guess that's kind of lucky, but it was through hard work of networking. So maybe a little, you know, networking, hard work and a little luck that you run into the right person that will set you up and help you with your, your career and your transition. But again,

You got to set yourself up for success. You know, if you got to get there, you know, my dad, when I was younger, retired from Northrop, I'm not North of general motors and Michigan, you know, back then, back in the fifties, you know, he got out of the Navy, you know, went right to work for general motors and had, you know, a 30 year career at general motors, making great money. A lot of those positions don't exist anymore, you know, without some kind of training, you know, whether it's.

Derek Wilson (41:02.734)
You know, we hire a lot of structure mechanics out in Palmdale from the Antelope Valley Community College. They have a structures course that we help set up with our instructors. So just that 12 week structures course that they go through, everybody gets interviewed after they come out. So hard work, setting yourself up for success, getting the skill, the training that you need so that you can be qualified for a position you're looking for.

Well, in the creating your own luck situation, you pretty much nailed it, hit it right on the head. So Dr. Richard Wiseman wrote a book about luck and other articles about luck. And it's not arguing that you can change your luck at the blackjack table. It's not what it's about, but increasing your interactions with people you don't know, doing things you don't normally do, like go on networking, talking to people you meet in the grocery store line and the bank line. The increase in interactions increases your luck. Yeah.

things like walking around with a smile on your face versus a frown on your face, increase the chance people talk to you, right? But all of those things are things that veterans don't always do. We tend to stand in line and don't talk to people if I'm not sort of lying. Not always walking around smiling. Let's always have a mean face or whatever else that we just just part of our growing up or our nature or our training or our experience or whatever it is, but finding ways to break those habits and create new habits.

increases your chances of finding people who can hire you? 100%. I put 100%. Yeah, without a doubt. And I think that's key, right? So if you're not used to, I mean, and you don't have to be an extrovert, right? You don't have to be Mr. Social out there, but you do have to open up a little bit and be open to help, right? So research shows that the two best things are getting veterans hired.

it's professional resume support, professional interview coaching. What do you see from your position when veterans come in to interviews and haven't had interview coaching? Okay. Definitely go to mock interviews. Definitely. as you mentioned earlier, we're not good about talking about ourselves, right? We always say we, even to this day in my emails, I never say I, I I'm always saying we as, as my team. And so.

Derek Wilson (43:30.19)
You know, but when you're doing, interviews, even I thought I was a great speaker. I used to get a lot of speeches, a lot of, a lot of breach. You know, I was a pilot briefing all the time, but I was great at public speaking, doing all that good things. I can tell you my first interview, I was a mumbling, stumbling, bumbling idiot because now you're talking about yourself, right? But, and it's not natural for us to talk about what I did and all that things, all those good things. So.

you have an opportunity to do a mock interview, do it. Or I'd always say, even to my candidates now, I said, even if it's not the position that you're crazy about, if a company offers you an interview, take it. Even in the back of your mind, you may say, there's no way in heck I'm going to accept a job in Wapden, North Dakota. Sorry for all you Wapden residents out there. But we're in Marine Reserve Center there. That's why I think about it.

But take it because you're only gonna get better. And so, as you follow on for interviews, you're gonna be able to learn to talk about yourself better. And then also, we're gonna have some nervous energy when you go into an interview, right? It's natural. But I always tell candidates, look, they're not gonna interview you if you didn't qualify for the position. So the hiring, we've gone through this screening, the hiring managers made his decisions.

He's not going to take, or she's not going to take time out of their day to interview someone that they're not wanting to hire. Not that you're going to get a position after every interview, but now again, it might come down to three people that that hiring managers looking at to consider hiring. And a lot of times they just want to see if they're a good fit for their team, right? And now they're splitting hairs and they just want to talk to you, see if you're a good fit for the team, you know, fit it, you can fit into their culture, you know, whatever that may be. So be prepared.

Don't be a little nervous, not overly nervous. And then also, you know, practice, practice, practice, practice in the mirror. If you can't do a mock interview, practice in the mirror. And yeah, it'll definitely go a long way. Have you seen or you heard of any of the AI interview tools recently? I have not, I'll be honest with you. I have one and I will send you a link to try it out or I'll demo it for you next time myself and you can watch it interview me.

Derek Wilson (45:59.15)
It is amazing now what we're able to do with AI. I mean, I'm sure you know that you use AI in your aircraft, right? But this doesn't just ask you questions like, tell me about yourself and where do you want to be in five years and those generic things. It gets into the nitty gritty details of what you've done and what they're asking you to do. It's fantastic. I'll share it with you. So I take that back. We just had a demonstration where we were using AI. We basically...

I forget the AI program, I know it was in chat, GBS, whatever. But what they did is they took the requisition, the position description, they put it into AI, and then AI spit out potential questions, potential interview questions. And so we use it for the hiring managers, right? So, you know, they can take their position description, put it, use AI, put it into AI, then AI will take out what are some potential questions.

based off that position description. So if you're gonna practice for an interview, you're like, gosh, what kind of questions are they gonna ask? Maybe use AI, throw that in there and see what kind of questions they spit out and be prepared for those. That's actually appropriate, Brian, because so my platform uses GPT -4 to generate the questions. If you're using that to find them yourself, it too. So my platform creates the questions and then presents them to you verbally and you answer them. It listens to your answer.

and then grade you at the end and tell you how well you did. Do this, don't do that and provide you the recommended answer. And if you guys chat GPT to get your recruiters to arm themselves with questions, then my product is doing the right thing. That's awesome. That's awesome. I'm afraid what mine would turn out to be. No, it's a, let's say, legitimate, intense interview in terms of I haven't been interviewed by any other person as hard, as difficultly as I was by this AI.

That makes sense. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. I can imagine. I've seen some of those questions and it spit out and I was like, wow, amazing. So can you tell me what you see as the future of resumes for, for all, all in true, not just Grumman, but so the resumes have progressed from, you know, leaving of what was a business card size document and somebody's house when you visited to what we have now with people turning in, I'm sure three to five pages of, of CV where it should be.

Derek Wilson (48:24.75)
but resumes are still PDFs and then we got to put the information into the company's form and then both of them get submitted. But is this how we're always going to do it? What do you think is going to be the future of the employment process or the application process? Yeah, because Northrop Grumman, we read each one. So what you need for Northrop, I can just always speak for us. Chronological resume. Don't get fancy. If we were a

you know, maybe a design company or something like that, art or something else. But we're pretty, you don't think about it. A lot of our hiring managers are engineers. They want straight to the point, right? We don't need a lot of nonsense in there. So, you know, your upfront, your information, you can put a mission statement, but I would keep it to a minimum because I don't read those. Many of us don't read them. But you can just say, hey, you know, 20 year Marine top secret clearance,

aviation technician or a logistics officer, program management, you know, whatever, just very brief. But the biggest thing is the next section is your skills section, right? That's where I said, go into that position description and pull out those key skill sets that they're looking for. And you can just bulletize them, you know, whether it's three rows across, whatever, but that's where my eyeballs go first.

is because if it's saying, hey, I need C++, Python, ActiveSecret, Clarence, and backdoor or software development, whatever, if you put those four or five skills up front, guess what? I want to keep reading. When they talk about, hey, recruiters only spend 20, 30 seconds on a resume, truly, that's probably a lot, right? That's probably a lot. But I directly go in and

Think of it as a Vegas casino. If I see like five or six of those things that are on the position description, automatically I keep reading down the resume more. And then in the body of the resume, use it chronological and write what you did with program management or communication skills or software writing, whatever the position description is requiring. And the reason we do chronological, because a lot of times we're trying to level people at the same time. So that's the...

Derek Wilson (50:50.958)
position says, I need 10 years experience of this or five years experience of that. I'm using those dates in your chronological resume to see what level we can put you at, whether you qualify for a level three or level four, whatever years of experience that that position requires and relevant experience, right? So yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I'm talking of the summary being short and your skills up top and

the amount of time spent in 20 seconds or less, I have a good friend who is a head of talent acquisition at one of your competitive mates. And his saying is, your goal is to get me to scroll and does the mouse wheel, right? Cause yeah, yeah. Very important. You know, like they say, give us the easy button. Don't make a search for stuff, right? If we got a search, if we have that one day, I see this all the time. People apply with their federal resumes. Done.

Yeah, do not do a federal resume. Yeah, yeah, you know, and you know, yeah, you know, obviously, if you're PhD, and you got doctorates, and you got all these other maybe more, but keep it directly applicable to the position here, your appliance. I appreciate that. So after our so we have Word documents, PDFs, and now we're on LinkedIn. But what's gonna be the next thing that we're gonna walk around with a chip or a

a token that says, here's my application material. What's after this, upload my PDF, fill out my form? What's the future of the employment process? Gosh, that's a good question. I really don't see anything in the next year or two, maybe with technology in five years. Box square, blockchain. Yeah.

I think it'd be a good idea if you have a QR code. If you're out there networking, you have a business card, if you're able to put a link and a QR code on the back of your resume, I think that'd be great because then as a recruiter, I can use my phone and I can look at your resume instead of carrying them around and scroll. Yes. Do dot cards that connect all of your information on a dot card or it can even be they have these little

Derek Wilson (53:12.334)
pieces that fix to your phone and you can use it has all your awesome on there. Like we talked about network, you never know who you're going to run into. I mean, how many conversations do we have on an airplane or, you know, in a meeting or you run into people keep it available.

So I appreciate your time here today and I were kind of, I don't want to hold you over. I would love to get in the future if you ever up to it. And I see you're wearing that Notre Dame fighting Irish shirt. I think you did that on purpose and I couldn't let you get away with that. Not bringing up the, the USC versus Trojan every USC. You know what? It's a great rivalry, right? It's a great rivalry. I, I'm a big Notre Dame fan, but I'll be honest with you. I'm a college football fan.

And regardless of what team you choose, what team you root for, it's the passion of college football that's amazing. It is, it's great. Well, you guys are coming to USC this year and I'm trying to get there and watch that game. If you make it up there too, we should get together. Let's do it. Are you in San Diego? I'm actually in the happiest place on earth, Orlando, Florida. okay. So it was late there for you. Orlando, Florida. Well,

Well, if you do get out here to California and bring your recruiting trips, be sure you let me know. And if I get the Florida, I'll do the same thing, but I'll be in touch with you very soon through LinkedIn or email for some more correspondence. You don't mind? That'd be perfect. Love to help. Brian, this was awesome. I can't believe that you created SkillBridge. This is amazing. You've done a great work. I'm sure people have congratulated on you before, but I mean, I just went through a three year research into this space and what you created is probably the single biggest, most influential.

thing to happen to veteran careers as they transition in our lifetime. Yeah, you know, sometimes it's good being humble. I look back and I'm like, you know what? And I think any one of us, and I truly say this, it's like people say that and I was like, you know what though? I think you, any other one of us who are put in the same position, just would have looked around and said, okay, what do we got to do to fix this? And so it really, truly wasn't that hard to.

Derek Wilson (55:24.078)
come up with. Just fortunate to be in the right place at the right time. Well, you were prepared. So great job. I will talk to you again soon. Thank you. Awesome. Take care. Bye.